Show Up Uncut
Welcome to "Show Up Uncut," a podcast where two fierce ladies bring you unfiltered conversations on business, health, fitness, and mindset.
Join us for an unapologetic exploration of the highs, lows, and everything in between as we share raw, real-life stories from the trenches of SHOWING UP. From crushing goals in business to smashing personal best at the gym, we're here to inspire and empower you to show up fully in every aspect of your life. Get ready for straight talk, bold insights, and unwavering authenticity as we dive deep into what it takes to succeed in business and beyond. Tune in and get ready to elevate your game with "Show Up Uncut"!
Show Up Uncut
Breaking Myths with Vegan Bodybuilding with Grace Sutcliffe
Imagine transforming your body and mind by embracing a vegan lifestyle—it's not just about tofu and kale. We promise you'll learn why understanding your nutritional needs is critical, especially when transitioning from vegetarianism to veganism. Hear personal tales of overcoming stereotypes and nutritional pitfalls, like the importance of B12 and iron, and discover how supplements and regular blood tests can help keep your plant-based diet balanced. We'll break down the myths that veganism requires more supplements than an omnivorous diet and share tips on enhancing nutrient absorption.
What if vegan bodybuilding could redefine your perception of strength and self-worth? Join us as we unpack personal stories of empowerment through weightlifting and share insights into overcoming body image issues and societal pressures. We'll reveal the challenges of maintaining mental health after bodybuilding competitions and tackle issues like body dysmorphia and bigorexia. It's about setting personal boundaries, embracing self-acceptance, and finding power in the transformation that a vegan lifestyle and fitness journey can offer.
Celebrate individuality and the vibrant communities that embrace our quirks, from nerdy interests to alternative subcultures. We open up about finding comfort in spaces that celebrate unique traits and offer acceptance, such as queer-friendly environments. You'll hear about the role of these communities in transforming perceived flaws into celebrated strengths. Our guest, Grace from Misfit Muscle Club, enriches the discussion with valuable insights into vegan nutrition, encouraging listeners to pursue plant-based living with compassion and intention. Join us in this exploration of empowering connections and compassionate living.
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um, back to like the vegetarian stuff so I do find that a lot of people like lack in their nutrition when they are vegetarian. Because my sister is vegetarian and she her eating habits are fucked like yeah, she will literally go to macca's and get like a fucking cheeseburger without the meat patty or whatever, and then get like a hash brown and put that on yeah she doesn't really supplement anything, for, like any protein sources she doesn't supplement, for she doesn't like tofu like there's like things that she like, like.
Speaker 2:She just eats a lot of shitty food yeah, absolutely, and that's what I was like as a vegetarian as well. I think for a lot of people that go vegan, vegetarian, a lot of us do it for animal ethics reasons and the nutrition and the health aspect of it isn't as important. But then as we grow older and if you do have a fitness sort of like approach or focus, like I have grown into on my, you know, fitness and bodybuilding journey, you then start realizing, okay, like for a lot of my life I was really not looking out for the sort of nutrition that I should be having. But that goes for majority of people too, like the average person walking down the street. Ask him how much protein he gets in a day. He doesn't know, you know. And or they'll go like, oh, like, how much protein do you get? And I'm like, well, you go to kfc like you're not really going there for the protein sort of thing, and you know they. They draw all these different sort of conclusions around why being vegetarian or vegan is like not good for you, without looking at their own diet first.
Speaker 2:And the average person doesn't know where they get their b12 or their calcium or their iron or anything from. They just say, oh, like cheese and red meat. You know that's where we get our nutrition from, and it's just like we know now, with all the research out there, that this is not true and majority of nutrition and specific nutrients come from plants at their source. And that's something that was an education point for me. And then, passing that on to other people, when you know they asked me where you get your protein from. I'm like, well, plants. Like where do animals get their protein from? They get it from plants and then we just take it from the animals because the middlemen, you know, but as vegans and vegetarians, we cut that out.
Speaker 2:Well, mostly vegans, as vegetarians, obviously still do have cheese and eggs, but I think that was one thing that was really important for me when becoming a vegan coach was I really wanted to help people understand what sort of nutritional considerations they need to have when going vegan to really thrive and survive and make the most of it. So it's something I'm super passionate about. Yeah, yeah. So do we wanna list some of those off? Do you guys interested in those? Yeah, yeah, I think it's B12. B12 is probably a big one and I think a lot of people don't really know where they get their B12 from initially, but that's a big one for vegans and vegetarians that I really recommend supplementing if you can, just as we can't really get it from food and the quantities that we need it from. Obviously, iron is something to look out for as well, if you're looking for iron fortified products or I feel like most of us, are iron deficient, though yes yeah.
Speaker 1:I eat red meat and I always go through phases where, like I know, when my immune system is down and I'm getting really sick, I'm like I reckon my iron's low, and I'm always right, and then I'll just start taking iron tablets and I feel better that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absorption as well. Yeah, that comes down to, you know, your red blood cells, like there's so much that can come down to that absolutely.
Speaker 2:This is so shit.
Speaker 3:Can we like put it down and out?
Speaker 1:then we just like come in, but then my face is covered well, yeah like instagram.
Speaker 3:It's on spotify anyway, so instagram for this one yeah, everyone's gonna be like why are?
Speaker 1:they? Why are they so close um?
Speaker 2:your iron is an important one, especially if you're like a woman or a person who menstruates, you know you need to make sure that you're on top of your iron sources as well, and pairing it with things like vitamin C is going to increase your iron absorption as well. So it's just like little hacks like that that you can look into just to make sure that you are getting the most out of it. And, honestly, for a lot of my clients, what I do recommend is just get a blood test at the beginning of our coaching just to see what your body's doing. And what's really helpful is using instant scripts. They have a vegan specific blood test that you can get, which tests for these sort of things.
Speaker 2:Like, you know, iron B12, vitamin D, that sort of thing, which isn't exclusively, you know, a plant-based person problem. But oftentimes, you know, people say don't you have to supplement with a lot of things. But when you look at the supplement industry on the whole, it's like it's a multi-billion dollar industry. It's not built for vegans alone. You know. Majority of people need to really look at their diet a little more carefully anyway, just to see are they getting enough well-rounded nutrition and where is that coming from?
Speaker 3:you know, yeah, definitely, what's your biggest? What was your biggest struggle, like when you went from being a like carnivore no, it's omnivore is that omnivore, yeah, yeah from going from what's a carnivore that's not.
Speaker 2:It's like a cat, someone who only eats meat who only eats?
Speaker 3:meat, so like Ivy oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, you could probably get scurvy and die, yeah, you don't want to look at Ivy's stuff.
Speaker 1:then I was literally thinking to myself we've literally got Ivy on and now we've got Grace on and there's a complete opposite end of the spectrum. Yeah, completely.
Speaker 2:Oh man Interesting, Interesting.
Speaker 3:We didn't really talk about his whole carnivore diet, though we just spoke about him and his story, yeah, so what is your biggest? What was your biggest struggle? Going from being an omnivore to a vegan?
Speaker 2:I mean, well, there was that vegetarian transition period, so I can't really say I remember any sort of struggle when I went vegetarian, because it was basically just chopping out the meat, taking out the meat and just replacing it with something else now you're gonna look out for like things like egg products, like you can't have chocolate like my.
Speaker 1:When my sister used to be vegan, she only stopped because she's got a lot of health issues and she was like she's trying to. You know figure out what was going on there. But she, I remember I bought her chocolate for her birthday and she's like I can't eat that.
Speaker 2:I'm like I fucking forget that like right, yeah, this is vegan, but it's not yeah eggs and milk and stuff in it that's it.
Speaker 2:Well, I suppose the bigger transition was growing vegetarian to vegan. I think, especially when I did it, like seven ish years ago, there wasn't the wide variety of products that we have available now, and even then there was still a lot more products then than there was, you know, for the people, the vegan pioneers, you know back in the 70s and that sort of thing. But now there's basically anything you can imagine that's an animal product. We can have that, a vegan version, like the chocolate I brought you today. Like there's so much vegan snack food that it's getting to the point where I'm like I really want to support this brand so it stays around, but i'm'm also like I'm going to just blow out my food. Yeah, I'm like every time there's a new product like literally last night Glenn showed me on his phone there's like ice cream sandwich, like cookie ice cream, things that are vegan now at Woolies and they're not even marketed in such a way. They just happen to be vegan.
Speaker 2:And I think more companies are doing that now when they realize that there is a market for it and people are becoming more health conscious and realizing that animal-based products, um, you know, are linked to cardiovascular, cardiovascular disease, you know, cancers, things like that. Um, they have, the highest source of saturated fat is in animal products, and people are becoming a bit more conscious of their health, so they're leaning more towards plant-based diets, yeah, which, conversely, are linked with, you know, lower risk of cardiovascular disease and heart, you know, and cancers and that sort of thing as well. So we're sort of shifting the perspective a bit and I feel like the food industry is following suit. You know, especially in. You know, countries like the UK are really progressive. They've got really high vegan population there. Compared to you know, australia is a little bit smaller, but we're coming along.
Speaker 1:You know what, when I went to Amsterdam, their maccas they have like so many. I'm pretty sure they have vegan options but so many fucking vegetarian options. There's heaps now At McDonald's you can get anything on the maccas menu as vegan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:It's like a meat replacement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's literally like you can get chicken nuggets, but absolutely meat replacement. Yeah, it's literally like you can get chicken nuggets, but or you can select the vegan chicken nuggets? Yeah, there's so many now it's in amsterdam, everywhere there's even a vegan mcdonald's in sydney.
Speaker 2:It's called mr charlie's. It's in redfern. It's amazing and it's basically everything you liked from the original mcdonald's but done vegan and it just it's not as stepped on as a mcdonald's burger. Like it tells a bit more care. But, um, kind of circling back to what you asked, because I didn't really answer it in that full way, I suppose the biggest struggle was just realizing that there's milk powder in everything, like you'll pick up a broccoli and then milk powder in really small writing, not even, but you know it's it's that for instance no, it's like so often.
Speaker 2:There'll be something that you're like yeah, surely this is vegan. Flip it over. There's either milk powder, bugs and egg powder in it. All sorts of weird shit yeah, can you explain?
Speaker 2:that bug, the bug thing. I ruined. I ruined dinner on saturday night for someone. When they asked me why, like the lifesaver lollipop, like I was looking it up, like oh, I hope it's vegan, they were telling me how good. I was looking it up, like oh, I hope it's vegan, they were telling me how good it was. And I was like, oh, I can't have it. And she said why. I was like I don't want to tell you like I'll ruin it for you and she said why?
Speaker 2:it's because there's bugs in it. So there's a color. There's a color called color 120 or 120e, um, carmine. It's also known as it's made from ground up beetles to get a specific red color, and it's in so many foods, drinks, makeup, that sort of thing, and you'd think companies could just use something else like beetroot powder perhaps you know, but they use this cheap bug.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's very. It's things like that that were a little bit challenging. So what I do these days is there's an app you can get called Fussy Vegan and it's kind of like my fitness power. It's got the barcode scanner so you can scan the food if you're not as literate with reading labels, and it will tell you if it's vegan or not. They've got a huge database.
Speaker 1:You have to be quite educated on like yeah. You look at the back of things and it's like that's research, yeah, but there's like all these chemicals and stuff. That's it what the fuck is that well.
Speaker 2:You build it up over time, like nutrition literacy, like it took me ages to get to the level of tracking food and macros, to the specifics that you need to be in bodybuilding that I have now, but I feel like a lot of people just feel like it's in the too hard basket. I couldn't go vegan. It's too hard. But then we will spend hours scrolling on tiktok and we'll spend you know forever learning a new app and, you know, doing little things like that and it's like, okay, yes, it brings us that kind of instant gratification.
Speaker 2:But if you really care about something or want to make some more conscious switches for your health, the planet, the animals, like you can spend a little bit of time sort of educating yourself on okay, like what can I eat? And I think, when it comes down to switching to incorporate more vegan foods in your diet, sort of look at what you're already having and think, well, how can I make that vegan? You know, how can I swap something out or add something in and then gradually reduce the animal products there, rather than just throwing it all away and just trying to think of something from scratch. You know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, talking about bodybuilding, how did? You let's talk about. Let's talk about the juicy stuff yeah, yeah how did you get into it? What made you, I guess, start being a coach, like what got you? You obviously became a vegetarian at 12, so you started at a very young age, I guess. Guess with your conscious journey.
Speaker 2:That's it. Honestly, I wasn't really conscious of my health until I went vegan, and that was like a real big sort of light bulb moment for me was when I went vegan and started to really care a bit more about the foods that I was eating. So I went vegan about seven years ago and it was in that same year that I met my now husband, glenn. Shout out Glenn, we love Glenn, we love Glenn. And he was really into fitness himself.
Speaker 2:And I've been going to the gym since I was 16, but I didn't really know a whole lot of what I was doing. Just like willy-nilly, just going to training yeah, doing pull-downs like this, you know and just going through the circuit of pin loaded machines and just doing a thousand crunches yeah, you make it work. It's all for a different job. But at the time, like I didn't know what I was doing, I would just go to the gym and I'd spent like an hour on the cross trainer because it worked my arms and my legs was the logic right and then just go do some random weight machines and I'd been to the gym for a little bit. But when I met Glenn, like he was really into his fitness, you know, like for his job and just everything that he was doing down in Melbourne. Well, he used to be a stripper, so he had to be really fit, so that's how we met, I think.
Speaker 1:I knew that when we went to Melbourne. That time I was like this is a story, this is a story.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So he was very into his fitness and you know lifting. So when I met him I was like, oh okay, like I wanted to get a bit more educated on it myself. And when he moved up to Sydney we started going to the gym together and he started like, took me downstairs to where the big machines are and the cables and all the plate loaded machines, and I was so, so nervous but I really loved it and as I began training more and more with weights, I was like I want to show people that vegans aren't this frail hippie with a hessian sack bag, you know, with like stick wrists and that sort of thing, that vegans can be healthy and strong and thrive and that the stereotype is just that a stereotype, because I'm like I know it's possible and I've always sort of been the type of person that like to push boundaries or be a little bit outside sort of what's expected of me or the societal norms, just like to be different and um, we love that about you, yeah and I just really I fell in love with lifting.
Speaker 2:It gave me a newfound sense of confidence, especially as someone who, throughout my teen years, I had an eating disorder and I was anorexic and you know ednos and had, you know, different issues there. So lifting sort of gave me a goal that was away from losing weight to be skinny. It's such a common thing and I feel like there's such tie-ins with people who go on bodybuilding journeys, where oftentimes we come from a place of we hated ourselves growing up and we learned to love ourselves through getting strong and fit. And it can go in a toxic way too, but when you can, I think it depends on your personal journey, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, like I I said to jess after I competed for the first time, I'm like, I'm so proud of myself because I didn't fall back into any old habits to do with like eating disorder or anything. It just like really proved to me how far I'd come, and going into it I knew that I was, like you know, healed. But I kind of did have those thoughts like am I going to? But I actually hated being that lean. I hated it because I was like you weren't having a good time, yeah like the comments that people were making.
Speaker 1:I think for me like after comp, like oh, I'm worried about you. It's like, well, I'm not going to fucking put on 10 kilos in two weeks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's those things that was triggering for me, Cause I'm like that's what people used to say to me when I had my eating disorder.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and people feel so. At liberty to comment on other people's bodies.
Speaker 3:You know, training, having her pregnant, yeah, legit the amount of fucking comments that I'm getting at the moment.
Speaker 1:People are just like within prep.
Speaker 3:And I think, and I was speaking to you at the comp the other day about it, like it is something that, especially with bodybuilding and for somebody that is so invested, you know, within their physique, it's like having comments like that, like when you compete as well like being lean, it's like. It can be derailing, yeah, or like when you are putting on weight and they're like you know, say to you I don't know if you can hear me yes, I can.
Speaker 3:Hopefully. Okay, they'll have to turn it up. Anyway, yeah, like when people say to you like now I've lost my train of thought um, this happens a lot guys.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, they'll say something to you like you look really skinny instead of lean and you're like fuck, do I look skinny? Or if you're putting on weight, you're looking healthy. And then your brain can misinterpret that like oh, did you?
Speaker 3:know, or when's your next comp?
Speaker 2:like show after you just competed and it's like I need to heal they don't understand what goes into it and it's it's like a big show for them and they see the end result, but they don't see all the work that went into it and all the backstory and all the law that goes with becoming a bodybuilder and what leads you to that point and, um, yeah, being pregnant as well. I think people feel like they have a lot of authority over your body and like making comments and touching you and stuff like that, and it's very inappropriate. Even when you're lifting, people come up and grab your bicep or something. It's like don't, don't touch me. Yeah, you know, although make comments and all the comments flood in and you get this dopamine rush when you're in prep and then they sort of stop. Yeah, afterwards, yeah, and it's a lot of.
Speaker 2:It was particularly triggering for me, like when I had anorexia as a teenager. I remember when I sort of recovered from that and gained a lot of weight, I had a friend and she said to me I preferred you when you were skinnier and it was like it was a big like trauma wound for me. Yeah, yeah, and I never forgot that. So there's all this sort of backstory with it and yeah, but coming into bodybuilding, I sort of was on that journey of like wanting to be this strong, powerful vegan and I was training for a while and then I switched careers and I went into working in fitness. I was in real estate before and I just loved it so much. And during lockdown I was listening to podcasts and I was thinking like how cool it would be to compete and how much I would love to stand up on stage and represent a vegan lifestyle to people and got this vegan tattoo on my butt, cheek and I call it astivism and I'd love I was like I'd love to put that out there so that people could see that and be like wow, like it's a vegan, like people don't people have this idea that you can't build muscle as a vegan? And I thought that that would be a great way to sort of do my own sort of form of activism that was different from the other forms of activism that I was doing and combined my new found love for fitness and my you know career and fitness with that and yeah, so I started just researching it a bit more and it was honestly, I was 2020. I started thinking about doing bodybuilding, but I didn't actually get my first coach until I think it was the beginning of 2022.
Speaker 2:So it was a good while that it was in my head and I just kept talking myself out of it Like that could never be me. I could never do that. I have too many bad habits. I could never give up food like that. I could never give up going out on the weekends, and it was this whole like things that I couldn't give up rather than things that I could gain from this experience.
Speaker 2:And then there was like one day it was so funny. I told you about this. I had this. I had Jess on Instagram for a while. We were in a like this. It was a group, it was some sort of like engagement group yeah, yeah and um, and I'd followed her sort of WBFF journey for that time and I just thought that she had like the best physique and I was like had a dream one time that I like hit her up for coaching and so I like I woke up in the morning and I got on my phone. I was like looking at the primal application and I was like, no, don't do it, don't do it. And I ended up going with a different coach because I thought that's who your coach was at the time, but it was just someone.
Speaker 2:It was someone of the same name, but a different person entirely, and ended up being a terrible experience but but then, when you know, my hormone journey with this particular coach was getting pretty fucked up was when I decided to reach out to Jess, and so that's when I joined her team and, yeah, we had a very short build phase before we had to go into prep for the first comp, which is the one that I was aiming for with my old coach, that he was not preparing me adequately for at all. And then we did it, we did the, we did the comp and now we're in our off season and preparing for the comp next year. Um, and I really want to bring that like so when am I going to compete? I'm going to do the Sydney show in June, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And what was a really cool moment for me was like after the morning show, when I was in the lobby and I was going down like downstairs to talk like walk back to the hotel, I had a few people pull me up and was like we saw you on stage and I'm a vegan too, because they saw my tattoo and it's like my friend told me that there's a vegan here.
Speaker 2:It was the one with the black and white hair, so I had to come find you and tell you how cool I thought it was and I was like this was the whole point, you know, and and I was able to get more reach with that and I suppose for me, like when it came down to my why for competing which I think is a really important thing to have before you go into competing not just to do it to prove to yourself or to get a great body yeah, like a trainer, yeah, exactly like it's. There's so much sacrifice that comes with competing. You have to have such a strong why that it carries you through. Like I wanted to reach more people to promote this lifestyle and to promote what's possible and what a body can look like in an extreme circumstance, obviously. But that veganism doesn't mean weak and you know it can be strong and it can be athletic and it can be aesthetic and we can do any sport that you know non-vegans can do and it doesn't limit us in any way. Definitely.
Speaker 3:Definitely Do you want to ask a question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, will you go.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say.
Speaker 1:Is it still on the same? No, Okay it's different. You go, sure Go. Yeah, I was going to go back to like when you were like younger and you like you went through like your um, eating disorder and stuff. Like obviously now you're such a confident person and you're like we were saying before about how you're like quite what's the word?
Speaker 2:what's the word that you use, like eccentric in a way yeah, I like that, I'll take that you're unapologetically sharp as who you are and you just own it and you just go with confidence when you were like, like when you went through your eating disorder, like did that come from like a like a self-worth thing, like trying to, like wanting to be accepted and stuff like that, because I know from yeah, mine yeah like mine was a little bit the same, yeah, like as teenage girls like we're specifically so vulnerable to comments about our bodies and stuff like that and I always grew up as like a slightly bigger girl, like I wasn't, you know, hugely overweight or anything like that, but I was a bit overweight and I was always a bit chunkier and, um, yeah, I was never really happy with my body in that way, specifically like I was not a very popular person in school, like I had. We sort of had a little outcast group of friends, but I sort of always aspired like I would love to have had like a thinner body. And I remember I had this boyfriend one time and he said to me like when I was talking about how I wasn't happy with my body and he was saying it's okay, like I like chunkier girls and that sort of like stuck with me. And then after that, I don't know, I just started really getting controlled over my intake and was like there was like a flip switch in my brain and I just sort of went from then on, was like I'm going to stop eating and overexercising. I would do like I had weird numbers and rules for things, like I would have to do like 700 sit-ups in my room every night and I would have to do like 700 sit-ups in my room every night and I would have to do like an hour on the treadmill and this the sort of thing, and there was such a toxic.
Speaker 2:I don't know if a lot of the listeners remember tumblr back in the 2000s yeah, and the culture around tumblr and the eating disorder side of tumblr was so toxic.
Speaker 2:And there was this thing called the skinny girl diet. I don't know if you came across that one and it had rules for how many calories you could have each day on the skinny girl diet and it was like I remember I found it a couple of years ago because I was curious just to look back on my old habits and it was something like 500 calories a day and some days you'd have 200 calories and that sort of thing. And it was this crazy culture of restriction and thinness and I just got like caught up in it and I don't think it was so much as wanting to be accepted by other people, but this I felt like I would like myself more if I was thinner and then it just became something ugly yeah too, because like I think back and like how I would literally view myself in the mirror.
Speaker 1:I would literally look at myself and think I was fat yeah, when. I look back at photos like the body dysmorphia was hard like oh 100 photos. I'm like how on earth did I ever think I was fat and even now like I'm so much chunkier than what I was back then? But I love how I look yeah, absolutely like your growth mindset.
Speaker 2:Hey, from like where you were absolutely where you are now. Well, that's it and, like jess will know, even coming out of prep, like I was expecting in my head, because I feel like when you do have an eating disorder, you are often stuck to it, stuck with it to a degree for life.
Speaker 1:It's like something you still deal with, like it's, like it's like an addiction in a way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I will never go, you'll always have it, but it's learning and being self-aware yes like talk to yourself and go like. That's not how yeah like what I'm seeing right now and what I'm thinking is not that's it.
Speaker 1:Pulling yourself up, that's how I felt too Like. I was like am I going to come out of this and want to stay this lean, but I was the opposite. I was like I cannot wait to pull like body fat on. Cause, I just preferred how I looked with that little bit of extra meat on me. I love being lean, but once show was over, I was like okay, I don't like this anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm done, make it stop. No, like coming out of show. I was prepared because I'd listened to a bunch of podcasts and videos and read things from bodybuilders being like you can get like in a really bad mindset after prep and you know, you see people that do comps, they show up on Instagram crying and all this sort of stuff and I'm like I never wanted to be that person. Prep was great. I actually think I did really well in terms of the mindset during prep, but then it was afterwards.
Speaker 2:I struggled a lot with the way that the weight went on so quickly, because I think in my head it's like it took us this long to get to this point and then within weeks it's like it's gone up, up, up, up up and your brain when you've been going down for so long for a specific goal like I was keen to put on weight and I was keen to train and get stronger and eat again. But then when it actually started happening, it was a lot to catch up on and I could recognize a few triggers in my head, but luckily I don't feel like it got too bad. There were some stages where I was getting a bit in my head about it, but you learn to snap out of it a bit. And now I look back at my photos during prep and I'm like my God like who is that Jack Skellington looking motherfucker?
Speaker 2:yeah, and now I'm like it's funny like you see yourself so differently when you do have a degree of body dysmorphia, which comes to a lot of people that train in the gym.
Speaker 3:You know, men, women, people of all genders are not immune to body dysmorphia it's funny you're talking about this, because I actually thought that I, from the start of this year, like I had body dysmorphia from last year and I was like it was getting me down quite a bit.
Speaker 3:But when I felt pregnant and I started to see a little bump, I like look back at photos now and like I'm probably going to do that my whole pregnancy, but I'm like the way I was seeing myself, like I, it was completely different to how I see myself now. Absolutely, and it just that's where the self-awareness and I've noticed with myself. It's like I need to lean into this more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think this is going to be something that's going to help me heal my body dysmorphia. Yeah, yeah, being a little bit more, like you know, with what you're seeing is not, yeah, exactly, what's there? What?
Speaker 2:exactly is there? I, yeah, exactly what's there. I was literally just having a discussion with Glenn about this the other week because, like a lot of men, they call it bigorexia, where they don't think they're as big as they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm saying that too. I feel like some people think they're bigger than what they are, yeah, they're walking around.
Speaker 2:Specific people. Yeah, like it's like guys and girls.
Speaker 2:They'll be like oh, oh, look at, like, like, look how big my legs are, or something. I'm like, bros, my legs are bigger than yours and my small. That's it invisible lap syndrome and um, it's yeah, some inflated egos come along with the territory, but um, it's yeah, it affects a lot of people and I think it's not really talked about enough. Is that like what we often see? It's not how other people perceive us and we're always going to be our harshest critics.
Speaker 2:And as soon as we can try to detach from that and look at things a bit more objectively and recognize is there anything specific that triggers me? Is there a place that I go that makes me feel uncomfortable? Is there like a specific outfit? Or like when I, in the fitness sort of space, we start hitting a certain weight, I'm like, okay, this is where I know that I'm gaining a little bit of extra fluff, like it can't all be muscle, right, you know.
Speaker 2:And recognizing, all right, maybe journal this out, maybe I'm going to do something that's a bit more self-care based, that has nothing to do with my physique. Treat myself in a way that's not food related, that's not. You know, that's not going to be like triggering in that way, like we're comforting ourselves with food because we felt bad about the thing. You know that sort of thing. But we're maybe doing something that is just completely different, like getting a massage. I said to my clients or um, you know, reading a book or buying a game or something like that, doing something for yourself to try and take away from you know those feelings that you're processing kind of just self-care in that way, because we can't all afford to go to the therapist, we can't all afford to get treatment for eating disorders, which is it's such a blocker in this world, like you know. They say, oh, are you okay? No, I can't afford a therapist.
Speaker 1:You know that sort of thing they give you like six or something and that's it six like people who are really going through it. It's just not enough six is not enough.
Speaker 2:And then it takes you forever to get in with a health care professional.
Speaker 1:You're paying like 200 and something dollars a fucking visit like that's it.
Speaker 2:There's so many barriers to getting health care in this country.
Speaker 2:I was speaking with a friend of mine, um, who needed to get her adhd medication again, she's been unmedicated for ages because it's so expensive to get in with a psychiatrist and if, if you leave it too long, you then have to go back and they will not often give the scripts to the GP, and now there's a whole thing about it.
Speaker 2:But it took her forever to get in with them and then the script got sent to the GP and then there was some issue with that. There were so many barriers and specifically for neurodivergent people, there's that sort of it's. The efficiency of it is not always there and it's going to be harder to do some of these tasks sometimes and the executive dysfunction really is going to kick in and you're not going to be able to do these things as effectively. But then the system doesn't make it any easier. Yeah, a bit of a tangent there, but 100% no. There needs to be better health care in place for people, especially people struggling with mental health issues like eating disorders or, you know, depression, anxiety things like that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely agree.
Speaker 3:Yeah, actually, I had a question how we're speaking. Em kind of touched on it, like with your being your authentic self and how you show up, and you mentioned before like it's to do with you, like obviously growing up and not giving a fuck, really, because that's the cool thing, cool thing we were trying so hard not to give a fuck and then it came off yeah too much of a fuck was given. So I want you to talk a bit more about like, because you go to. What are those shows Like you go to?
Speaker 2:Like the drag bars and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the drag bars which look like a vibe bar. Oh, you've got to come so much fun.
Speaker 2:They look like a fucking vibe. That's it. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And you do things that are like outside of. How do you like, what kind of got you all into that and is it like you know? Obviously you've got friends that have brought you into that space. Is that something that you've always enjoyed doing yourself? And how do you like for advice for other people, like how? Do you, I guess, not give a fuck. Some people like, like they don't even want to admit that they play video games.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I actually know in my I've got clients that their partners are like mad on the games. But they they don't want to say, like admit that their partners like play video games.
Speaker 2:Like it's fucking video games yeah, yeah, 100% I play video games, yeah yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:It's video games too sometimes if I want. Yeah, but it's a confidence thing and it's just like.
Speaker 2:It's like they're gonna think I'm nerdy that's it, and it's like I feel like being nerdy is now seen as being cool. I don't know like I see a lot of people on, you know, social media and it's all about comic-con and stuff like that. Yeah, there's so much, so much more like these days more accepted, whereas all the cosplay theater kids growing up which was kind of like my group of friends, were all like quite different. We're all made fun of and you're all stupid and nerds and anime weirdos and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:This girl on instagram she does cosplay and she's fucking so funny like yeah, she's so funny and I'm just like I'm so here for you girl yeah, she's the only fans and everything oh, it's such a niche.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, there's definitely a market for it. I think, um, like, growing up, growing up like I was bit of an emo kid we've seen kids so it was never a phase. Nah, like yeah, I came to that when I was probably about like 12, I really started shifting into that sort of music and that side of me and all that the music really like helped me through a lot of things and really spoke to me and I felt like I had something that I really identified with, was like you know, punk music and hardcore and you know more of the emo metal sort of style of music, and I love that. My friends and I we were all show up to school with our different colored hair and, and you know, we would go to shows on the weekend and we would just talk about music and all the just that sort of stuff that we loved and that style was so like poignant for the time. Like you can't replicate the era of the 2000s emo vibes.
Speaker 1:I was the 2000 emo girl.
Speaker 2:I had the teased hair and everything. When I get home.
Speaker 1:I'll send you a photo. Show me, I'll send you a photo of me. My hair is huge. Oh it's hectic.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's great.
Speaker 1:You'll be like what the fuck We've got to leave pears in?
Speaker 2:I'll send it.
Speaker 1:He's dark eyeliner.
Speaker 2:You'll be like oh my God, doesn't he look like me? Like we had our group of friends and that's all that really mattered, like we got made fun of a fair bit. But it was okay because we kind of liked who we were, you know, and even though we did struggle with some of our own issues and a lot of people in alternative scenes we do have traumas and things that happened, you know, younger. That sort of made us sort of, I guess, lean to the darker side of life and find like a bit of beauty in it. You know what I mean. But it of life and find like a bit of beauty in it. You know what I mean. But it's that sort of shared experience with people who are equally just, unique and different and, as I've grown up found out, basically all my friend groups are all neurodivergent and everyone's just operates on a different sort of you know wavelength and spectrum really, and I think it makes life more colorful and interesting.
Speaker 2:So in terms of that, like I feel like it's kind of who I've always been was a little bit just obscure and I always kind of looked at things a little bit differently or enjoyed things that some of my you know peers didn't, and I was always a bit nerdy, even when I was into metal and that like I really love things like Downton Abbey and Doctor who and shit like that and you know things.
Speaker 2:Things like that were really kind of special to me and finding people within these cultures that just could nerd out over stuff I really enjoyed.
Speaker 1:I think it's important too to, like you know, I think we've spoken before like find your tribe, kind of thing like yeah, surround yourself with people who like uplift you or you have similar interests in and all that sort of stuff, and not try to like fit yourself into fucking boxes. Yeah that's it that's what, like, I feel like a lot of people do these days.
Speaker 2:They try to fit themselves into a certain box well, I used to work in real estate before I was in fitness and I never really felt like I fit in. In a lot of the offices I worked in it was very sort of standard corporate real estate people and I just couldn't vibe with them and I would make like pop culture references and stuff and they would just feel like a line from the Simpsons or something and people wouldn't understand it. And this is the way that the brain works, like you know. But when you find people that are like that as well, I'm like man, like they just think I'm this weird bitch and I guess I am, but I kind of learned to embrace that over the years. It's like I'm not really changing.
Speaker 2:But when I you met Glenn as well, he was such a weird person in his own way too, but our sort of weirdness was the same.
Speaker 2:Like I remember, when we were in the talking phase we were going through like different conspiracy theories and things like that and we would immediately have the same thoughts about each of them, like yay or nay sort of thing. And you know, when you find someone who matches your energy in that way, it gives you, I guess, a bit more confidence that you're not just out here on your own and, like you know, while you don't need a partner to be able to embrace your most unique self, I think it does help finding a community of people who accept you for who you are and who think the things about yourself that you might have thought were flawed are actually kind of you know, the things in that diamond of you that make you so unique and diverse said about um, you and glenn like matching energy, because that's how I felt with aj when I first started communicating with him and like even now, like we were like in the car on like the weekend and I was like I just randomly like think of random fucking old songs.
Speaker 1:They pop into my head and I'm like um, every minute, every hour of the day and I was like what's that song? And he goes cody simpson and flow rider. I was like fucking ears and I put it on and like he always just matches my energy like yeah and it's just such a fucking vibe. I'm just like you were, just like my person.
Speaker 2:It's so cool that's it I've never had that with anyone before it's so special when you find that like so cool.
Speaker 1:It's like, yeah, what you were just saying.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I'm resonating with that so much because, yeah, our minds are just so like yeah, it's crazy and when you have that person that will support you, 100 back you no matter what, like I feel like that is so important and has been such a breakthrough for me and healing of a lot of my mental health sort of issues along the way was having someone that just was like my ride or die, you know, and same for him and you can just you can have that and it's so special. So I think, yeah, I guess, in terms of like the drag bars and stuff like that, I started going to like queer spaces. I suppose like some of my friend group growing up in that a lot of you know queer people and you know diverse people in that group as well. So I was not really. It wasn't really like a different thing for me and you know my dad is also gay.
Speaker 2:So when I was old enough to go out, I was like I want to go to a gay bar, like they always sound like so much fun. So he took me out to Stonewall if anyone listening, it's in Oxford Street in the city and it's like very camp and it was so much fun and I loved it and I think one of the big things for me going out was like in a lot of queer spaces I feel so safe and so accepted and there's no undertone of violence from any of the men there. And even, like for my birthday the other week we went out to the imperial and glenn organized like a party for me and he used to work in a nightclub back in melbourne. He used to manage a nightclub for like 10 years, so he's always on edge when he goes out. He's seen it all. He's like this was the first time I've ever been to a bar and I felt totally comfortable.
Speaker 2:He's like there was no one arguing, you know, everyone was laughing, having a good time. There was no one, you know, starting fights, starting arguments. There was no one hitting on someone in a way that you could tell was making them uncomfortable. Yeah, and so in these spaces, like lauren, my friend, and I, who often go to know shows together, we go to a lot of drag bars and things like that and themed nights, we'll be on the train together and I'll like fun outfit with everyone looking at us, but as soon as we get to the inner West, it's like no one gives a shit. You know, and you've got to find spaces that accept that because it's unfortunately you're still going to get looks if you're a little bit different, and especially out in the suburbs where we live it's just not the done thing, and but when you go to these places it's so much fun because you can truly just embrace who you are and let go, and everyone's inclusive. There's not divisions or, you know, any sort of hierarchy. Everyone's like level and that's how it feels there anyway.
Speaker 3:So yeah, being able to feel safe feeling safe is such a huge thing.
Speaker 2:Specifically, you know, when you go out, I think for a lot of people. You know we worry when we go out about a lot of things that a lot of you know amab people don't have to worry about is getting home safe, someone spiking their drinks? Are we like carrying our keys in our hand, like texting our friends, our uber details to make sure we get home? Like I was talking to glenn about this recently and he said when two men are approaching me on the street, the worst thing I have to worry about is, can I take them both? Yeah, but that's not nearly the worst thing that you guys have to worry about and those sort of thoughts never cross a lot of people's minds. About safety, as you know, like a woman in this world and the things that we have to deal with when we go out and being safe and staying safe with our friends as well yeah, yeah, even when I was traveling like that's like one of the things that you kind of always got to be like really aware of the surroundings and surroundings and everything that's like you know yeah
Speaker 2:going on even the man you mentioned about in italy, who followed you around oh yeah, I spoke about that on the. I was yeah, I was telling one of my clients about it. He's italian. He was like he's, like, that's just italy. And I said no, no, no, no. He followed her persistently to a location that is. That is not okay ever, and we should never make excuses for people like that.
Speaker 1:That, oh, that's just boys being boys or none of that shit, like I'm not going to be, like that's just Italy, but that, literally, is how it is there.
Speaker 2:It's a culture of yeah, but it's very much like we should not accept things just because it's the way that it's been done forever. And like circling that back around to a lot of my morals and ethics is like a big reason why I feel like, as vegans, we don't just accept things because that's the way they've always been done. When that's such a huge argument for it, it's like well, there was a lot of things that have always been done that aren't acceptable anymore. So if we can learn that, why can't we learn this?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? Yeah, I love that. Is there anything else you want to like talk about or like share with the audience, or like I suppose?
Speaker 2:like on the vegan front. I probably thought I thought of a few things that I sometimes get asked when, like, speaking about it in new spaces is kind of like for people looking to transition to a plant-based lifestyle, like, is there any thing that they should be doing or, you know, look out for? And I think the things that I normally recommend to people that are vegan, curious or, you know, coming into the plant-based space is to really look at your why. First of all, like with bodybuilding, if it's, like, if they I have questions people they want to transition to being vegan, how do they do it? If it's for animal rights, I feel like it's very easy to do overnight. If it's more for health or, you know, environmental reasons, it can sometimes be a bit more of a transition because the why is not as solid.
Speaker 2:So I really think just having a look at what's out there is so important. You know, as a vegan like, go to coles, go to woolies in the frozen fresh sections, there's so many plant-based products available now that we just didn't have before. So looking at adding some of those in substituting them out, instead of grabbing, you know, the cow's milk, grab the soy milk or the almond milk, the rice milk, the fucking macadamia milk. There's so many available options now that you're really not missing out at all. Um, have a look at restaurants in your area like what do they cater to? There's so many in the inner west and sydney. You know where. You know I go to a lot to eat. Um, and having a look at, you know what you can do to change up the meals that you currently enjoy to make them plant-based. So, instead of just taking the meat portion out and replacing it with nothing, which is going to leave you with a bit of a nutritional gap, particularly with protein, look to replace it with something of equal or better protein quality. And we have so many efficient plant-based protein sources these days, which is something as vegan bodybuilder fitness people we need to keep on top of as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So research these days, which is something as vegan bodybuilder fitness people we need to keep on top of as well. Yeah, so research, learn. Speak to people, join vegan groups, like. There's some really good facebook groups as well that you can join if you're interested in getting into activism. There's some really good ones in sydney as well that are always looking for people to come out. So I think education is key and I think when we have at the forefront of, you know, our if you're coming into this from an animal rights perspective or, you know, environmental reasons an opportunity to do better, then we really should take that and use it and use that compassion to, you know, create a future that we would want to bring other people in the world, you know to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, if you do, you want to add anything? No, I was just going to say if you want to add anything, no, I'm just gonna say if you want to like you know, if you want to get onto a nutritional, a vegan nutrition coach, hit grace up. She's misfit muscle club on instagram or her personal page is sinister.
Speaker 2:Grace that's me with a y, with a y, two wines um, but yeah, it's been really good, I feel thank you, that was a good chat. Appreciate it and we love you what you're all about, so yeah, very good thanks guys this microphone thing was just not a vibe.
Speaker 3:Look, we made it through. Thank you guys for coming down thank you for having me.